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How to take Insulin

massdig

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I found this article at Elitefitness.com and wanted to share it with you. I might start this up soon.
I am going to point out the important conversation that went on. If any of you have experience and can add or give some positive suggestions let me know.
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I’ve recently had several enquiries from guys interested in running Insulin during cycles, or at PCT. Most(if not all) seemed very fearful of Insulin. And with good reason. If Insulin is run incorrectly a host of things could happen to you, including death. With that said, I refer you to Mr. Sparkles thread on Insulin. All you questions can be answered there….



This post is just a simple guide for first time insulin users to follow in a safe, and effective manner.

I urge you to invest in a glucometer. This will give you a close estimation of where your BG(Blood Glucose) levels are (Safe Zone 70-90,but independent upon each individual).You want to take in adequate amounts of carbs, but not too much. As the excess will be stored as fat. And yes, if you aren’t careful, you can add quite a bit of excess body fat. As you’ll see in my dosing example below, we drop carbs slightly as to not to acquire excess BF.

As you already might know. The basic rule is 10g Dextrose to 1 iu of Insulin. Now the trick is to get in tune with your body so to take advantage of the insulin spike, which allows nutrients to be shuttled to the muscle cells rapidly, doing so without taking in excess carbs which equates to body fat.

Below is a 30 day cycle(which is recommended) for Insulin. I don’t use Insulin on off days from the gym. Some like to use Insulin on off days in the morning to fight off the catabolic state we’re in upon awakening. I feel upon awakening in the morning a shake consisting of Whey/Dextrose would be sufficient in bringing you out of this catabolic state from fasting over an 8 hour period while sleeping. Remember, you can become Insulin insensitive if abused. So by running insulin on training days only reduces that threat.

I’ll use the 5 day training split as an example here. That will give you 20 days “on” insulin.

Day 1 : 5 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Day 2 : 5 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Day 3 : 5 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Congratulations!! You’ve survived thus far. I assume(hope) you’ve been monitoring your BG levels. You probably have noticed that you are in the higher range using 50g of dextrose PWO. Now it’s time to drop the carbs slightly. Don’t fret. This should be more than ample amounts(of carbs) to get you through to your PPWO meal.

Day 4 : 5 iu insulin/40g Dextrose

Day 5 : 5 iu insulin/40g Dextrose

At this point you should have a good idea of how you react with Insulin in terms of BG levels vs. carb intake .

Let’s up the dose……

Day 6 : 6 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Day 7 : 6 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

By this point in time you should be feeling good(ie;more confident),but still respectful to Insulin. Let’s test the waters for 3 days to give you the feel of things. By that I mean we’ll drop the carb intake slightly so you can find a comfortable ratio in regards to iu’s vs. carbs per gram.

Day 8 : 6 iu insulin/40g Dextrose

Day 9 : 6 iu insulin/40g Dextrose

Day 10 : 6 iu insulin/40g Dextrose

Now, the above ratio’s are safe and effective. You can stop right here and continue on for the next 10 days at the above doses/ratio’s. Or you can move forward slightly.

Day 11 : 7 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Day 12 : 7 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Day 13 : 7 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Day 14 : 7 iu insulin/50g Dextrose

Day 15 : & iu insulin/50g Dextrose

If you felt confident with the above protocol.You could experiment on days 14-15 and drop your dextrose to 40g.If you do so, please monitor your BG levels every 15 minutes or so. And have glucose tabs, or another source of quick carbs handy (like orange juice) to stave off any possible signs of hypoglycemia. Don’t panic should this happen,just drink a glass of orange juice, or similar, and in 10 minutes the symptoms will have subsided.

Ok, on to your final week.

Day 16 : 8 iu insulin/60g Dextrose

Day 17 : 8 iu insulin/60g Dextrose

Day 18 : 8 iu insulin/60g Dextrose

Day 19 : 8 iu insulin/60g Dextrose

Day 20 : 8 iu insulin/60g Dextrose

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how do you minimize fat gain while using insulin? will this negatively affect you after you stop with the "protocol"? like being less sensitive to your own insulin or something? if so can you recover from it/how long does it take? what kind of gains can be expected (like 5lbs or something)?

If your new to insulin then use very fast acting insulin. Humalog. Start small... 3IU's then work your way up to maybe 6. Never exceed 10. Newcomers shouldn't really need more than 6IU's twice per day. And most important is you need 10 grams of carbs for every 1IU of insulin.
 
I somewhat disagree with this article. Insulin use at 10gr carbo per iu can get you fat depending on bodytype after you factor in post workout meal along with insulin shake

When I advise insulin use I do solely on bodytype.

I have used 5 gram high GI carbo and 2 gr long chain carbo per iu with great results


Good infomration though! get a lot of questions regarding insulin and many people dont realize the different types
 
jdb3 said:
I somewhat disagree with this article. Insulin use at 10gr carbo per iu can get you fat depending on bodytype after you factor in post workout meal along with insulin shake

When I advise insulin use I do solely on bodytype.

I have used 5 gram high GI carbo and 2 gr long chain carbo per iu with great results


Good infomration though! get a lot of questions regarding insulin and many people dont realize the different types

Yep... you dont need it everyday either. Take advantage of it training larger muscles groups on certain days to start. Best way to find iut how you will react to it in more than one way..
 
Cool article and I have to say I am intrigued by insulin, my greatest fear is dependency. I always told myself this is off limits but lately I admitt I want to try it after I get my training and dieting back on track.
Can one of you guys please talk me out of it ;D
 
flyingfox said:
Cool article and I have to say I am intrigued by insulin, my greatest fear is dependency. I always told myself this is off limits but lately I admitt I want to try it after I get my training and dieting back on track.
Can one of you guys please talk me out of it ;D
Stop... dont do it.. help....
 
Ok let's say I work up the nerve to walk into my local wallyworld, what do I ask for and how much should I expect to pay?
 
flyingfox said:
Cool article and I have to say I am intrigued by insulin, my greatest fear is dependency. I always told myself this is off limits but lately I admitt I want to try it after I get my training and dieting back on track.
Can one of you guys please talk me out of it ;D
Of your diet is not on, you'll get fat. Insulin is powerful but very dangerous at the same time without knowledge. My suggestion, hire a coach to get your diet ready and who is knowledgeable about this hormone. So much can go wrong so fast. We don't want you to be a non-flying fox. 🙂
 
Most Walmarts(if not all) sell over the counter longer acting insulin like Novolin-R or Humalin-R for just under $25. There not aloud to ask any questions by law. As far as dose, results and carb intake it like many other things in the sport are going to be mostly based on an individual bases and how much insulin your body produces etc., RockShawn hit the nail on the head about hiring someone who knows diet and how different diets effect different people. However I do believe insulin can be run with great success and with minimal risk if your homework is done before starting and you know exactly what to expect. Start with the recommended 10 carbs per iu and slowly drop carbs to a comfortable level as jdb said very few actually need 10 carbs per iu. Keep fats to a min but still get your healthy fats. Never run slin on off days and never run it for longer than 1month at anytime imo to avoid becoming dependant to it.
 
I would suggest that you do as post workout until you get used to how to use insulin because using as a pre workout you can very easily go hypo because of the carbs being used during work out.
 
back4more said:
I would suggest that you do as post workout until you get used to how to use insulin because using as a pre workout you can very easily go hypo because of the carbs being used during work out.
Ahhh unless you have been coached properly as to the amount and type of carbs to ingest during workout. 😉
 
back4more said:
Most Walmarts(if not all) sell over the counter longer acting insulin like Novolin-R or Humalin-R for just under $25. There not aloud to ask any questions by law. As far as dose, results and carb intake it like many other things in the sport are going to be mostly based on an individual bases and how much insulin your body produces etc., RockShawn hit the nail on the head about hiring someone who knows diet and how different diets effect different people. However I do believe insulin can be run with great success and with minimal risk if your homework is done before starting and you know exactly what to expect. Start with the recommended 10 carbs per iu and slowly drop carbs to a comfortable level as jdb said very few actually need 10 carbs per iu. Keep fats to a min but still get your healthy fats. Never run slin on off days and never run it for longer than 1month at anytime imo to avoid becoming dependant to it.

So It would be preferable to use shorter acting insulin as the effects are more predictable, what are some of the brands? BTW this is something to try in the future after training and diet are tuned in, prolly six months or so.
 
I have seen some insulin go from 39-100+ bucks. That is nuts. Humolog is what I will do. Not sure if I need to do this preworkout or post. Does that really matter?
 
massdig said:
I have seen some insulin go from 39-100+ bucks. That is nuts. Humolog is what I will do. Not sure if I need to do this preworkout or post. Does that really matter?

When do you workout? If you workout early, either scenario will work pre or post. If you work out later int he evening, I'd suggest Pre Workout, you will be able to take advantage of the slin during workout and the second spike for post workout if done this way. If you take it post and you don't finish your evening workout till let's say 7pm even though you get your carbs in with the pin, you could fall asleep before the second spike and have problems. Less Likely you'll fall asleep while lifting 🙂
 
homegrown said:
Yep... you dont need it everyday either. Take advantage of it training larger muscles groups on certain days to start. Best way to find iut how you will react to it in more than one way..

Definately agree with that Homegrown.
Here is a write up (not my own) about how this could be applied. Its definitely not a beginners protocol though.

By Almost Pro @ I-T.com

Just wanted to give you guys a heads up and let you know I will be trying something new in insulin use. As you know I am a huge fan of humalog use and have used it for over 8 years now, but as much as I have learned, there is always more to learn. No matter how smart I think I am, there is always someone smarter....case in point Chad Nicholls.

He has a revolutionary approach to maximize gains from insulin use. The theory is this, continued use (post workout or daily) will lead to insulin insensitivity. Your muscles will never have a chance to re-establish sensitivity, therefore, increased risk of rebound hypoglycemia.

Since it can take up to 24 hours to re-establish sensitivity to slin, it is best to not continue use, which can lead to resistance and continual higher doses, eventually leading to diabetes.

So his theory is this: take insulin one or two days per week max but for multiple doses in that day. You will space the days out as either mon-thur or weds-sat or something of that manner. Adjust your training days accordingly so that you train legs on one day of use and something like back on the other, sticking to massive large parts only for optimal use.

On the day you use you will take your dose (10-15iu) every 6 hours using humalog only. Take one with breakfast, one with lunch and one post workout or something in that manner, just making sure to take at least 3 doses. This will super saturate the cells and then allow for full insulin receptor recovery before the next dose.

There is more to the theory but this is the premise and it sounds very promising. I realize and understand the theory and logic behind it and will definitely start it this week. I will keep you guys posted and see if there are any noticeable results or changes. I can tell different amounts of iu's doses etc since I have probably taken more slin than even most pros, lol.

More info to follow...

Results thus far:

Today was my 7th workout with slin on the new protocol since starting this. I have been using it on back day and leg day, which is Sun and Weds. I take 15iu postworkout, 15iu with lunch and 15iu with dinner. My last injection still leaves me 5 hours eating time till bedtime to make sure it clears.

My results thus far have been this: An massively increased feeling of fullness that lasts for days, not just in the trained muscle group but all over. The ability to eat huge amounts of food and have them stored intracellularly. I eat more carbs than I ever have and none of it has spilled over into fat. My bf has not increased at all, something I can't guarantee with daily slin use. A last thing is I am not retaining water, something I do with off season slin use when using daily.

I have an incredible muscle fullness, something I have not had since I was doing super-physiological doses of aas. I am on very low doses of test, gh, igf and slin. The synergy of the combo is unreal, but with the addition of the new slin protocol I am insanely full and pumped.

Well still doing the slin 2 times per week, and I have also incorporated it into a e3d gh mega dosing schedule. I have been taking the slin 3x per day at 15iu per inject twice per week and then doing the gh at 20iu pwo e3d. I make sure my slin days coordinate with my gh days, therefore the workouts aren't always on the same days. I prefer to take my gh pwo, some like the bedtime routine, but in all my research everything points to this being counter-productive. I have had many guys PM me in private and tell me that they switched to pwo shots after my recommendation and the results have been beneficial. Bedtime gh shots are counter-productive.

I have been taking low doses of test. para, and eq with my slin, gh and igf and have been getting gains similar to when I was mega dosing test at over 4k per week. The key to growth is through anabolic pathways with attention to nutrient partitioning. GH, slin and igf are all completely anabolic and all of them are highly controlled through proper nutrition. As I have always said, food is king and now I have found ways to manipulate it even more.

As for my igf, I have been trying mega dosing of igf as well, taking 80mcg 3x per day with my slin and gh days. So far the pumps are painful and I am down to 30 min or less workouts, the workload is accomplished in less time, more pump and then using better nutrition timing schedules.

I am gaining weight at a time when I was looking to slim down, I dropped most of the androgenics. What I am experiencing is truly incredible and I have unlocked some major pathways to massive growth.

***edit*** forgot to put WHO's theory it is. This is the theory Chad Nichols has apparently been using with his clients and having great results.

The applied science

Well, its not my Slin theory, but its something that i have been wanting to try, and Doug and TX asked me to document this when I tried it.

Here is the basic layout of what it entails:

interesting Insulin theory...

Here is the layout of my training and diet breakdown:

Mon - Legs [Slin day]
Tues - Chest/Delts
Wed - Off
Thurs - Back [Slin day]
Fri - Off
Sat - Arms
Sun - Off

Basic low volume with some arm work at the end of the week, mainly just some add-in touch up work which suprisingly has done well in the last couple months. Will prolly drop it next changeover.

Stats:
5'9"
238lbs
BF - 10-11%

Cycle:
GH - 4ius/d (all at once in the am when I get up)
test E - 750mg/week
tren E - 400mg/week
Aromasin - 12.5mg/E3D
Proviron - 50mg/ED
T3 - 50mcg/ED
igf-1 - 100mcg/d PWO - 3 weeks on/ 4 weeks off (alternating with Slin)

*** this will be the first go at this new Slin protocol***
Humalog @ 10ius at 1230pm/630pm(PWO)/130am [I work nights] on Leg day and Back day, thus allowing full saturation of the muscle cells. Bedtime will be at 6am.

Diet:

*Slin Days*
Cals - 4300
Pro - 350
Carbs - 535

*Non-Slin Days*
Cals - 3300
Pro - 350
Carbs - 360

The on/off days carbs may increase depending on how my body responds, as it may have the need for more carbs. But this may work fine for me as it is the summer and this new method supposedly keeps the fat to a minimum as well. During the winter months, barring this going well for me, i would obvioulsy incorporate more carbs on the on AND off days.

I feel that using this protocol will in fact avoid problems with insulin insensitivity. I myself have not used this protocol yet but plan to if I ever decide to run slin again. It may also help with fat spillover. Personally I would still keep carbs under control on slin days. When I used it I experimented with as low as 4gr of carbs per IU. Definitely be careful and have the glucometer on you at all times as well glucose.
 

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