Cycles--Newbie to Advanced

[F.I.S.T.]

Just figured id post this up for the new guys to help better understand cycling.Saw it yrs ago and thought it was helpful.Give a pretty complete and basic guide to help you as you venture into the gear world.LOL




Cycles--Newbie to Advanced



Here are some examples of cycles for you all.

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OPENING COMMENTS

Relatively moderate doses of gear can get you fairly large and somewhat above your natural maximum level of development, or that level of muscular development that can be held to with your own natural T production, but only IF you train, eat and sleep well.

For the average guy of average height 5'9-10", with average bone structure and with genetically typical recuperative powers that means about 190-195 lean pounds in body weight and a bench of 275-300 pounds, full squat of 375-400 pounds and about a 500 pound deadlift.

The further above your natural max the more gear you need to see continued progression. The increasing amounts of gear needed does NOT grow in proportion to your increase in body mass. For example, many men can get to 10 pounds above natural max with as little as 250mg of test per week........to gain 10% more weight above this number does NOT require just 10% more gear...it requires a fair bit more. So to get to say 30- or 40 pounds above your natural max requires a lot of gear.

So the amount of gear you need to use depends mostly on how close you are to your natural max, or how far above you are from your natural max.

*Larger doses done at a low body weight do make gains a little faster but it isn't worth the money and or sides in my opinion...and the "faster" isn't that much faster anyway.


FACTOIDS

250mg of test cyp provides over twice the weekly testosterone that a young man produces naturally..so for you guys that are not at your natural max you can gain well WITHOUT gear, if you know how to train without gear, or gain very well with low to moderate doses of steroids.

100mg of cyp provides about 70mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight)

Testes produce between 4 and 8 mg of testosterone a day....that's only 28 to about 70mg a week!..so you can see why 250 of cyp/week(175mg of pure test) can bring you to a little above your natural max, which is actually a pretty impressive level of developement.


NOVICE CYCLES AND GEAR CHOICE...those men not yet at their natural max.

Best to take single roids when you start out, and preferably testosterone for two reasons#1. you don't need to stack to see good results and #2. it is a good idea to get a good grasp on how you react to the best single hormone out there...testosterone( in the gains department and sides department)

Any roid taken alone can produce decent results but only four are really worth your while in this regard....#1 Testosterone, #2. D-bol #3. Anadrol and #4 tren. Personally I don't like anadrol since a high mg dose is required in order to see best results and this means a lot of liver toxic 17aa compound is ingested.....although for the short cycle it is "okay".
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[F.I.S.T.]

CYCLE #1

Understanding that few want to take as little as 250 of test a week and most want to see gains as rapidly as possible I will then recommend 400-500mg of testosterone cypionate or enanthate per week for the newbie. DURATION 8-12 weeks with an equal time off.

**** Always have an estrogen blocker available like nolvadex at 20mg/day or at least clomid at 50mg/day...nolva works better though

You get the most even blood level by injecting these esters twice a week....so 200-250mg twice a week will be more than enough.

SHORT CYCLE OPTION 4-6 weeks but with test prop at 100mg every other day....lots of shots though.

PLEASE see my post on "Keeping GAINS from Steroids" for info on post cycle therapy and how to keep your gains from a cycle.
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PLEASE see my post on SHORT CYCLES for info on how to do short cycles properly.

ALSO..test is test bro's... test sust is fine too although too expensive compaired with cyp and enanthate.

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CYCLE OPTION #2.

Test @ 500mg/week 12 weeks & D-bol at 30mg/day in 4 divided dose and one just before bed for 4 weeks.
The only roid that is better than test IN THE SHORT RUN is d-bol...a truly UNREAL steroid and a favorite for over 40 years. D-bol was discovered way back in 1956 and quickly became a favorite of the pro's. D-bol only cycles work VERY WELL so don't let anyone BS you about them. They have been done by many over the last 45 years.

Nolva on hand.

* limit time "on' d-bol to 6 weeks as it is 17aa and can be hard on the liver.

MYTH:..some say that the gains from d-bol do not last...this is BS....the truth is the gains IN WATER from d-bol don't last so it SEEMS lilke the muscle gains don't last. Any steroid taken at bodybuilding doses, even at newbie doses, is going to shut down HPTA all the way so you can see that this "loss of muscular gains" ideation makes no sence.

NOTE: There is one steroid that is quite mild androgenically but seems to result in delayed HPTA recovery IN SOME(not me btw) and it is not d-bol...it is nandrolone, commonly used in the deconate ester(DECA) We don't understand why some bro's have a little trouble recuperating from this roid but it is a fact non the less.


CYCLE #3.

Test cyp or enanthate at 400-500mg/week for 8-12 weeks AND d-bol 30mg/day in divided dose for the first 4 weeks. This is a powerful combo indeed. The d-bol really gets things moving in a hurry.

Trouble with this stack is that you are going to experience a good deal of water retention and"bloat". An estrogen inhibitor like arimidex at .5-1mg/day might be a good idea....but now it is getting overly complicated for many novices.

Short cycle option....test prop 100mg every other day and d-bol 30mg/day for 4-6 weeks.

Have nolva on hand for sure! Estrogen inhibitors DO NOT work well for gyno protection...USE an estrogen blocker like nolva.


CYCLE #4 for the "gutsy" newbie

Test at 400mg/week and tren a 75mg every other day. Really good stack but it requires a lot of injecting so you better get your research done in this regard. Can do it shot the short cycle too.



CYCLE #5.

A classic again...test @500mg 12 wks & /deca at 300mg for 10 wks


CYCLE #6

yet another proven winner...Deca at 400mg/week for 10 weeks,test @ 600mg/wk for 12 wks and d-bol 30mg/day for 4 weeks....really nice synergistic combo here.

After each cycle take at least an equal time "off" from gear to allow your system to fully normalize.

A word or two on deca....deca has beengiven a "bad rap" of late....some really bash this excellent anabolic. They say is it converts to progesterone, gives you gyno, kills your libido, and it's hard to recover from.....WELL>>>here are the real fact on DECA

#1. Deca DOES NOT convert to progesterone....it a progestin and activates the PR more so than most roids.
#2. It almost never causes gyno at moderate dose.
#3. Some guys have a hard time recovering from deca. We don't know why this is really but many guys do not have a hard time recovering from deca...me and most of my clients included.
#4. Yes it can affect libido since it doesn't provide the needed androgen BUT it almost never does at 400mg/week....and if it does then as little as 100mg of test/week will cure that.

All in all it's an excellent roid and will be just fine for a first cycle and as I said ...if your sex drive drops then add a little test to the mix or proviron.

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[F.I.S.T.]

ULTIMATE INTERMEDIATE CYCLE

Test at 400-750mg/week(or less) and tren at 75mg/day...UNREAL STACK and simply the best there is. This is all that the intermediate needs!

******** In fact dare I say that you can accomplish ANY goal as a bodybuilder with just these two roids(along with growth and slin as you hit the national level)

The following is the F.I.S.T. all time favorite cycle and use this as my exclusive cycle these days.

My all time favorite advanced stack is a simple one, but also the best IMHO, and that is Test at a gram/week,eq or deca @ 750mg/week plus tren at 75mg/day with 1mg of arimidex/day.I kick start with drol @ 50mg ed for the first 4-6 wks or sometimes add Prop at 100mg ed.If you can't grow with this cycle no matter how long you've been training then you're doing something seriously wrong! I never go less than a 20 wkr now a days and usually bridge in between cycles.When I do cycle off,I run the normal pct with Nolva/Clomid.Now that im older I will run HCG @ 100iu's ed throughout my cycle since my natural hormone production has decreased so much and recovery is that much harder.


All time favorite short cycle, advanced, is 50 of d-bol/day and 75 of tren/day and 100 of prop a day with 1mg of arimidex/day for 4-6 weeks.

For pre contest cutting the last few weeks before a show I have done very well with tren at 75mg/day and a small dose of prop.

 

[tbonexl]

Oral only cycles? It's 2015 bud. Nobody does dbol only cycles unless their ignorant. Again with the ai. Ignorant... If your purely after gains then yea but from a health standpoint oral cycles are bullshit. Need test man.

 

[tbonexl]

"Estrogen inhibitors DO NOT work well for gyno protection...USE an estrogen blocker like nolva."

Where is this shit coming from? Lol

 

[GRIM]

a lot are still scared, nervous, whatever the reason of a little prick 😛

 

[tbonexl]

Still doesn't give the green light for oral cycles. Education gives the green light to a cycle...

 

[bigdude]

#1. Deca DOES NOT convert to progesterone....it a progestin and activates the PR more so than most roids.
#2. It almost never causes gyno at moderate dose.

Is this right?
Then what cause Deca dick?

 

[GRIM]

Ghey porn?

 

[tbonexl]

I'm not reading through all of op's threads but if they're anything like this then stay tuned! Lol

 

[F.I.S.T.]

Oral only cycles? It's 2015 bud. Nobody does dbol only cycles unless their ignorant. Again with the ai. Ignorant... If your purely after gains then yea but from a health standpoint oral cycles are bullshit. Need test man.

tbonexl

I agree about needing test but unfortunately there are far too many that still are scared to jump fully into AAS and are scared of jabbing themselves with needles and think orals only are a safer option.Obviously they are not accurate.

 

[F.I.S.T.]

#1. Deca DOES NOT convert to progesterone....it a progestin and activates the PR more so than most roids.
#2. It almost never causes gyno at moderate dose.

Is this right?
Then what cause Deca dick?

bigdude
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Found this....

IMO, at a low dose of 300-600 mg Deca-Durabolin per week, your chances of getting gynecomastia are very very rare! I've done Deca-Durabolin by itself at this dose on different cycles and never had a problem with gynecomastia and never needed any kind of anti-estrogen or anything else for prevention or treatment.

The only cases of gynecomastia that I have ever seen from Deca-Durabolin were when Test was in the cycle also. I'm sure that if the dose was high enough though, gynecomastia could occur with Deca-Durabolin , but not at a low dose of 300-600 mg/week.

Nandrolone should only cause adverse side effects when used by itself, or when the amount is too high for the amount of testosterone being used. A good rule of thumb is to use a ratio of 3:2 – testosterone to nandrolone. Therefore, if you were doing 600mg of testosterone per week, your deca durabolin dosage should not exceed 400mg.Again, the main problem with deca is that in the absence of enough testosterone to act as the substrate for dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a vital part of your erection, the body will get flooded with much weaker nandrolone metabolites that will out-compete your body’s own production of DHT.

Injecting deca by itself will cause a flooding of receptors meant for DHT, with weaker hormone that will not impart the proper signal to allow for a proper erection. This is called “Deca Dick.”

Side effects when stacking deca durabolin are a little different. As we all know, deca is usually stacked with test and dbol. The problem is that testosterone and dianabol are known to cause major side effects like water retention and the growth of breasts in men (gyno). These effects stem from these steroids being converted to estrogen (from testosterone) and 17á-methylestradiol (from dianabol) by the aromatase enzyme. Other side effects these two steroids display are major hair loss and enlarging of the prostate, mainly due to testosterone’s conversion to dihydrotestosterone via its inevitable interaction with the 5-reductase enzyme. Although nandrolone has some limited interaction width both the aromatase and 5-reductase enzymes, the metabolites resulting from these interactions do not cause the same extreme side effects as test and dbol. Therefore, deca durabolin is basically a synergetic steroid that work well with all other bulking steroids. Allowing you to bulk more without more side-effects.

Im not a scientist but just know from using that it happens.
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[F.I.S.T.]

I'm not reading through all of op's threads but if they're anything like this then stay tuned! Lol

tbonexl

Well if you have conflicting data,please post it up.I like hearing from all on everything.

 

[F.I.S.T.]

Still doesn't give the green light for oral cycles. Education gives the green light to a cycle...

tbonexl

Again,agreed but thats just not the reality of how too many start delving into AAS.

Also,this isnt saying that a dbol only cycle is the smartest cycle,only that in terms of short term cycles,IT DOES WORK.

 

[tbonexl]

You shouldn't be using deca alone either. Test being used with deca only makes estro related symptoms present due to test and test only. That's why an ai should be used to manage e2. Running test higher then 19-nors is broscience. If your estro and prolactin are in check, you can run minimal test with a 19-nor. Kind of contradicting since you posted running deca alone.

As far as oral cycles, they shouldn't even be discussed. Why pat a noob on the back for such a poor choice? If your not man enough to use a pin, then gear isn't for you.

 

[F.I.S.T.]

You shouldn't be using deca alone either. Test being used with deca only makes estro related symptoms present due to test and test only. That's why an ai should be used to manage e2. Running test higher then 19-nors is broscience. If your estro and prolactin are in check, you can run minimal test with a 19-nor. Kind of contradicting since you posted running deca alone.

As far as oral cycles, they shouldn't even be discussed. Why pat a noob on the back for such a poor choice? If your not man enough to use a pin, then gear isn't for you.

tbonexl

Agreed with you on most of that.I personally have found running Test at the highest dose in a cycle makes it so much easier to control sides without worrying about what else I have to take to counter the effects.Again,this is what ive found works for me and may not be the same as what others do.After over 3 decades of cycling without any problems,i'll stick to what I know works for me.

As for the deca or dbol alone,I also feel this should never be done.BUT many have done it.Not relevant whether you or I think its wrong,or the safest cycle to run,what is relevant is that it happens none the less,again,with success.Do I feel its safe? For short term,YES.For long term?No.But as I stated,what I think doesnt matter to the next guy that does it anyway.Not patting them on the back.Just accepting that in a free country people can and will do what they want no matter how many others frown on it.