Keto with IF

Agreed on the health. I am far from keto though lol. I usually blow that out of the water every morning when I eat my two peices of dry wheat toast. I eat a good amount of carbs especially on the days I train. I dont think a lot of people really know what they are signing on to for a true keto diet... No way I could do it unless I was trying to get just ripped... One banana. Or the equivalent of that for carbs a day... I would
go nuts Lol.

People need to understand low carb is one thing keto is another animal... We are fighting millions of years of evolution. Our bodies that have been taylor made to use carbs are just not simply gonna say "ok i guess we Dont need these anymore" its gonna fight and claw to get you to put those carbs in there. Its that same fucking voice that tries to tell you "no way we are doing one more rep or running 10 more seconds"

Balance, control, knowledge, and health and you will not have to take things to extremes. And some patience.
 
I have to be honest though. I don't think nutrition is really at the level it needs to be regarding calorie expenditure. I mean how in the world does a bomb calorimeter, which is just a two chamber device, depict the complicated human body disposal of nutrients. It never takes into account protein synthesis, catabolism, hpta, and other complicated feedback loops. Despite this we use the word calorie like it is the god of weightless.

This has never made sense to me, and so I remain skeptical. The human body doesn't obtain all the calories from all food. The food isn't burnt to an ash by the human digestive system. Presumably the bomb calorimeter would find that hay has a high calorific value, but the human body can't extract that.

We believe so much and there are definitely factors keeping this term "calorie" in a nutritionist vocabulary. I think the Atwater System is much closer than the World War 2 study of Calories, however, it will never catch on. That is why I have such a problem with mainstream many times.

Just look at the silliness of the food pyramid and one can realize the information available to the general public is rubbish. That is mainly why I am looking into other diets. I want to see what they do for my body. I do realize LT i'm not sure about the sustainability and that is a big thing for me. However, I do think there are things one can learn from different diets until one can determine what works for them.

Like I said the low fat diet really did help me lose 30 pounds and lean out nicely, however, my labs went in the shitter. Dropped my hdl 15 points. I need to figure out a happy medium.
 
slinsane said:
I have to be honest though. I don't think nutrition is really at the level it needs to be regarding calorie expenditure. I mean how in the world does a bomb calorimeter, which is just a two chamber device, depict the complicated human body disposal of nutrients. It never takes into account protein synthesis, catabolism, hpta, and other complicated feedback loops. Despite this we use the word calorie like it is the god of weightless.

This has never made sense to me, and so I remain skeptical. The human body doesn't obtain all the calories from all food. The food isn't burnt to an ash by the human digestive system. Presumably the bomb calorimeter would find that hay has a high calorific value, but the human body can't extract that.

We believe so much and there are definitely factors keeping this term "calorie" in a nutritionist vocabulary. I think the Atwater System is much closer than the World War 2 study of Calories, however, it will never catch on. That is why I have such a problem with mainstream many times.

Just look at the silliness of the food pyramid and one can realize the information available to the general public is rubbish. That is mainly why I am looking into other diets. I want to see what they do for my body. I do realize LT i'm not sure about the sustainability and that is a big thing for me. However, I do think there are things one can learn from different diets until one can determine what works for them.

Like I said the low fat diet really did help me lose 30 pounds and lean out nicely, however, my labs went in the shitter. Dropped my hdl 15 points. I need to figure out a happy medium.
slinsane

That is what its all about.... I take bits and pieces from things in all I do and then incorporate them into what works best for my body. I still have a long way to go but like you said, its about experimenting and finding out what works for the INDIVIDUAL. All our levels of homeostasis are much different and so is the way our bodies react to different types of diets, training and AAS. You will figure it out.
 
I wish there was a fucking calculator or software program bc you waste so much time "figuring it out"
 
Dave Palumbo`s Keto Diet Protocol

The premise of the diet is high protein (about 1- 1 1/2 gram per pound), moderate fat (about 1/2 g per lb) and low low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis (it uses ketone bodies for energy-- fats) and thus the energy requirements by the body can almost all be supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40grams per workout. You will get these 40g indirectly through the foods you'll be eating. As a backup, the cheat meal you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, you see, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. If we keep cortisol low (by
restricting STIMULANTS) we'll ensure that muscle is spared!

HAVE YOUR CHEAT MEAL ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK, last meal of the
day so you dont cheat again.T3 levels are reduced on a low carbohydrate diet, Cheat meal consumption leads to insulin production which is required for maximizing the conversion of T4 (inactive hormone) to T3 (active hormone).

Fiber helps burn fat! Everyone should take fiber 2x per day. Fiber actually helps increase the absorption of calcium.
When following my diet plan (which includes getting your brain into ketosis), there can be NO starchy carbs eaten!
The diet is based on the generic 1.5g pro, and about .5g fat per lb of body weight. you should have a meal every 2.5-3 hours you are awake.

MEAL #1
4 whole omega-3 eggs + 7 large eggs whites (For the whole eggs, make sure to go with mostly Omega-3 eggs.)

MEAL #2
"Lean-Pro Meal": 6oz chicken (cooked weight) with 1 Tbs Macadamia nut oil or extra virgin olive oil, and ½ cup green beans.


MEAL #3
“Pre-Workout”: 50g whey protein isolate + 2 tbs. natural peanut butter or almond butter


MEAL #4
“Post-Workout”: 50g whey protein isolate + 2 tbs. natural peanut butter or almond butter

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 6oz of lean ground sirloin (cooked weight) or 7oz salmon (cooked weight), a small green salad. (No tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) w/ ½ tablespoon of extra virgin Olive Oil.

MEAL #6
4 whole omega-3 eggs + 7 large eggs

For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1
5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

For a 250lb+ man:
Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs

Variations of the Palumbo diet for certain individuals :

120lb female
Meal #1: 2 whole (omega-3) eggs and 6 egg-whites.
Meal #2: 4oz chicken with 1/4 cup raw almonds.
Meal #3: 35g whey protein with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.
Meal #4: 4oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil.
Meal #5: same as meal #1 or meal #3.

100lb (lean body mass) female figure competitor
Meal #1: 2 whole omega-3 eggs and 4 egg whites.
Meal #2: 30g whey protein and 1 tablespoon natural peanut butter.
Meal #3: 6oz chicken and 1oz (1/8 cup) raw almonds.
Meal #4: same as meal #2.
Meal #5: 4oz salmon, 2 cups of spinach leaves, 1 teaspoon virgin olive oil and vinegar.

170lb male (153lbs LBM)
Meal #1: 3 whole omega-3 eggs, 3 egg-whites, 3 slices fat-free turkey.
Meal #2: 40g whey protein and 1 tablespoon olive oil.
Meal #3: 150g skinless chicken breast and 1 tablespoon soy and 1 tablespoon mustard and 30g almonds.
Meal #4: same as meal #2.
Meal #5: 200g top sirloin steak and 85g raw spinach and 1 tablespoon olive oil.
Meal #6: 2 whole omega-3 eggs, 1 can tuna.

160 lb male
Meal #1: 4 whole eggs, ¾ cup egg-whites, fish oil, primrose oil.
Meal #2: 7oz chicken, ¼ cup almonds.
Meal #3: 7oz salmon, 1 cup spinach.
Meal #4: same as meal #2.
Meal #5: 7oz lean ground beef, 1 cup spinach, 1 tablespoon olive oil.
Meal #6: 3 whole eggs, 1 cup egg-whites, fish oil, primrose oil.

185lb natty bb at 12%bf
Meal #1: 5 whole omega-3 eggs.
Meal #2: 7oz chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds.
Meal #3: 40g whey protein with 1.5 tablespoons all natural peanut butter (post-workout meal).
Meal #4: 6oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil.
Meal #5: 40g whey protein with 2 tablespoons all natural peanut butter.
Meal #6: 4 whole omega-3 eggs with 4 extra egg-whites.

176lb natty bb at 11-12%bf
Meal #1: 4 whole omega-3 eggs with 4 extra egg-whites.
Meal #2: 200g chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds.
Meal #3: 40g whey protein with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.
Meal #4: 200g red meat or salmon with 1 cup asparagus.
Meal #5: 40g whey protein with 1.5 tablespoons all natural peanut butter.
Meal #6: same as meal #1.

155lb male at 15%bf
Meal #1: 3 whole omega-3 eggs.
Meal #2: 5oz chicken with ¼ cup raw almonds.
Meal #3: 30g whey isolate with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.
Meal #4: 7oz (93%) lean ground beef with 1 cup romaine lettuce (dressing: 3 teaspoons ev olive oil and 3 teaspoons balsamic vinegar) and 1 tablespoon flaxseed oil.
Meal #5: same as meal #3.
Meal #6: same as meal #1.

195lb male
Meal #1: 5 whole eggs.
Meal #2: 8oz chicken breast and 1/3 cup almonds.
Meal #3: 50g whey protein isolate with 1.5 tablespoon natural peanut butter.
Meal #4: 8oz fish with 1/3 cup almonds.
Meal #5: 55g whey protein isolate with 1.5 tablespoon natural peanut butter (post workout).
Meal #6: same as meal #1.

172lbs at 11%bf with protein and veggies days incorporated
3X P-F, 2X P-V

Pro-Fat
Meal #1: 4 whole eggs with 4 egg-whites.
Meal #2: 6oz chicken (cooked) and 1/3 cup raw almonds.
Meal #3: 40g whey protein and 1.5 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.
Meal #4: 6oz red meat (cooked) with 1 cup asparagus.
Meal #5: same as meal #3.
Meal #6: same as meal #1.

Pro-veggie
Meal #1: 12 egg-whites.
Meal #2: 6oz chicken (cooked) and 1 cup asparagus.
Meal #3: 40g whey protein with water.
Meal #4: 6oz tuna and 1 cup asparagus.
Meal #5: same as meal #3.
Meal #6: same as meal #1.

I recommend that women take in about 8-10 g fat per meal; whereas men take in 12-17 per meal.
And REMEMBER......... All KETOSIS means is that your BRAIN is no longer burning glucose (carbs) for energy; it's using FAT ......and because we never run out of fat, the brain has a virtually unlimited source of energy..... therefore, no low blood sugar, no hunger cravings, no mood swings, and no irritability!

Remember, it takes 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).

1oz almonds equals 6g carbs (2 of those grams are fiber) and 2oz equals 12g of carbs.

With the beef meal (any fatty protein meal), you should have the green salad with 1 tablespoon of Olive or Mac oil INSTEAD of the nuts. Only eat the nuts with the LEAN PROTEIN MEAL (chicken, turkey, lean fish)

The best fat sources come from the essential fatty acids-- Omega-6 and Omega-3's. Most of us get plenty of Omega-6s from cooking oils, ect..........however the Omega-3's are harder to get. I recommend WHOLE OMEGA-3 EGGS, FaTTY FISHS like SALMON and SWORDFISH and TUNA and MACKEREL, ALMONDS and WALNUTS have some OMEGA-3's (as well as OMEGA-6s). ANother great fat source is MONOUNSATURATES such as EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL and MACADAMIA NUT OIL.....they aren't essential but they are great for the metabolism (great source of energy) and they are extremely good for your heart.

You're not getting any indirect sources of carbs (just from the 1 spoonful of PB.... you may want to have at least one 1/3cup nuts meal. Remember, Olive or Macadamia nut oil is predominantly a MONOUNSATURATED FAT (good for the heart, but not essential)........ the nuts, and fish oil have the essential fats in them. Also, with regard to FLAX SEED OIL, the OMEGA-3 Fatty Acids found in them (alpha-linolenic acid) has a very poor conversion to DHA and EPA (Essential Omega-3 intermediates) in the HUMAN........therefore, you're much better off taking in FISH OILS (that already contain DHA/EPA) than FLAX SEED OIL.

Once fat loss slows, I always increase cardio first, then I increase the amount of fat burners (clen, cytomel, lipolyze).........After those other methods are exhausted, only then, do I play with the diet.

Always eat BEFORE lifting........never BETWEEN lifting and cardio.
Artificial Sweetners:
The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........whereas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin

Forget using:
-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!
-Arginine is not going to do anything. It will DO something; just not dramatic.

Cardio:
CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY

never do less than 20 min per session

The BOTTOM LINE is that low intensity cardio (while you might need more of it) ensures that fat is utilized and muscle is spared (especially while on my high protein/moderate fat/low carb diet).

Do you feel the treadmill is better for cardio, or is the bike(stationary or recumbent) just as good? As long as the intensity is LOW, it doesn't matter which piece of equipment you use. You should start at 45min/day walking (treadmill or outside). Add 10 minutes to that the second week, and 10 minutes each week after, until you reach 2 hours/day. That should do it.

Fat burners: Start out with 40mcg per day (20mcg 2x per day) of clen 16 weeks out and 25mcg of T3 per day 14 weeks out. Increase it every 2-3 weeks as you hit plateaus. Make increases in doses of 20mcg of clen and 12.5mcg of T3. Don’t take more than 120mcg of clen and 100mcg of T3 per day.

Q&A:
Q: Is gluconeogenesis inevitable in your diet?
Dave Palumbo: NO

Q: If so do I need to consume more than 1.5 grams of protein per lb of LBM so as not to lose muscle?
Dave Palumbo: The fat spares the protein....when the brain is in ketosis, the carbohydrate requirements are very very low.

Q: How much (percentage) of my protein intake would be turned into glucose (gluconeogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: Very little (maybe 10%)

Q: What do you think of submersion in cold water as a means of burning bodyfat (thermogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: HOCUS POKUS!

Q: How about drinking lots of cold water (I think this was even suggested by Elligton Darden) to help lose bodyfat?
Dave Palumbo: RIDICULOUS

Q: Do you think drinking lots of Green Tea is beneficial to fat loss?
Dave Palumbo: Somewhat helpful.

Q: How much is the ideal dosage of Omega 3 for a 220 lb. individual ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to take in about 9g per day if omega 3 eggs are not available the can it be replaced with
the regular eggs+3 grams of omega 3 oil pills

Q: How many Tbs of peanut butter could I have instead of 1/2 cup of cashewnuts?
Dave Palumbo: 2 tablespoons, two tablespoons of Peanut Butter contains 190 calories and 16 grams of fat (so 1.5 tablespoon equals about 12 grams fat) ...whereas......... 2oz (1/3 cup) almonds (about 40 almonds) = 12g fat

Q: I want to add that if I cant find the omega eggs here locally. Can I use international egg whites and just take an omega supplement?
Dave Palumbo: You can get away with 5 whole eggs (regular ones) once a day........not a big deal. You'll be burning up all that fat anyway.

Q: Whats the max cups # of coffee ( no sugar ) can consume on Dave's diet ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to limit to 2 cups per day.......I realize that towards the end of the diet you may need more to help you get through the day.

Q: If you cook tilapia in macadamon nut oil?do you coun't the oil as your fat for that meal! Depends how much you use.
Dave Palumbo: If you just grease the pan with it, no!

Q: what is the protein,carb and fat ratio for offseason
Dave Palumbo: 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs

Q: and the ratio for contest prep.
Dave Palumbo:60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs

Fats are essential to cellular function and repair and are necessary for hormone production (especially testosterone). They also provide energy to fuel your body (gluconeogenesis provides the fuel—glucose-- for the training itself).
 
misterb... that is insane for the average person to do... that is a very advanced diet and training protocol. The food prep alone is way too much for the average person. This is for someone who is at the top of their game trying to get to the next level. All the levels of training intensity that must be met . Like I said its a great read but 9 out of 10 will not be able to do this on their own...
 
I want to try it and see how my labs look vs the low fat vs atkins. There is some benefit to teaching my body how to utilize fat more efficiently.

best way to learn what you like and what works is to try it... good luck friend
 
i love IF... went from lunch yesterday to lunch today with no food... been doing that 24hr fast once a week.

do the lean gains style 16/8 most of the time....
 
krustus said:
i love IF... went from lunch yesterday to lunch today with no food... been doing that 24hr fast once a week.

do the lean gains style 16/8 most of the time....
krustus me too, love IF, usually by nature go 18/6 or 20/4. brings me deeper into keto which is top notch
 
You guys must have some desk jobs and just sit around and send viruses all day. Lol. I work 10 hours outside in 95-degree weather then go to the gym afterwards. IF and no carbs, no chance for me
 
tkasch30 said:
You guys must have some desk jobs and just sit around and send viruses all day. Lol. I work 10 hours outside in 95-degree weather then go to the gym afterwards. IF and no carbs, no chance for me
tkasch30why not?

you do understand that with fat as fuel our body and brain has unlimited amount to use, always. with carbs it doesnt and if you dont feed it every few hrs you go hypoglycemic and are weak as wet tp and cant do anything. endless endurance and all kinds of athletes are using this way of eating so their body is using fat as fuel, instead of glucose. much better for the brain also, brain LOVES ketones and fat.

i am more fit then 99% and do more then most during my day and i eat 2x per day purely fats and maybe 90grams of protein. people turn their heads when i walk on the beach or pretty much anywhere.

carbs is the reason people get fat, not caloric intake or lack of working out. this used to be totally normal knowledge to older people but after WW2 things changed and fat was seen as enemy. and now we have 70% obese mofos walking around eating low fat yoghurt and low fat whipcream trying to lose weight. they should cut out carbs, drink olive oil and eat avocados and 10whole eggs per day and would be slim. regardless of working out or not. all hormone related
 

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tkasch30 said:
Well let's see some pictures , what are your stats
tkasch30sorry bro cant do that. privacy. we dont need my stats or anything anecdotal to prove a point: high insulin = high fat accumulation. carbs raise insulin = carbs drive fat accumulation.

its pretty simple. people have known this for over 70yrs. best looking guys ever, 70's and 80's were doing keto and ultra low carbs by instinct cause they knew carbs = fat. they ate whole eggs, cheese, veggies, fish, steaks, chicken, bacon etc. if you ate carbs back then they would slap it out eachothers mouths lol. this is basic knowledge

about 60 to 70% of population cant metabolise carbs properly. only small part of people can eat high carbs and not be fat and go into direction of diabetes. carbs raise triglycerides, also very known fact. cut out carbs and watch your markers get much much better
 
You can't post stats or even a pic of your body? That's no proof to me.... I don't know. Because I eat plenty of carbs and I don't look too bad but I'm sure you look way better? insulin builds muscle 2
 
I eat lots of carbs and my blood work comes back perfect so I don't know what to tell you
 
Since I eat carbs my blood work should be all fucked up and I should be a fat ass but I'm not so why is that
 
I am just blown away by this carbs make people fat not cals in vs cals out.... So if a person ate below maintenance but it was moslty carbs they would be fat??? Also reguardless of working out??? Wow... I hope people reading this do not take this gross information to heart... Our bodies are MADE to use carboydrates and we have SPECIFIC enzymes to digest them. Please do not put any more out there that is just not true.
 
tkasch30 said:
You can't post stats or even a pic of your body? That's no proof to me.... I don't know. Because I eat plenty of carbs and I don't look too bad but I'm sure you look way better? insulin builds muscle 2
tkasch30
i didnt say insulin doesnt build muscle. cause that wouldnt be true. but natural amounts of insulin are insignificant and dont build pretty much anything. we are talking 2-3IU after a meal. doesnt do jack

once again. carbs raise insulin, insulin is fat storage hormone, carbs make people fat. simple science. 70% of usa is fat because they eat carbs. diabetes epidemic, because people eat carbs
 

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