Big Bang anyone?

Hanzo

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By Eric Metaxas, WSJ

In 1966 Time magazine ran a cover story asking: Is God Dead? Many have accepted the cultural narrative that he’s obsolete—that as science progresses, there is less need for a “God” to explain the universe. Yet it turns out that the rumors of God’s death were premature. More amazing is that the relatively recent case for his existence comes from a surprising place—science itself.

Here’s the story: The same year Time featured the now-famous headline, the astronomer Carl Sagan announced that there were two important criteria for a planet to support life: The right kind of star, and a planet the right distance from that star. Given the roughly octillion—1 followed by 27 zeros—planets in the universe, there should have been about septillion—1 followed by 24 zeros—planets capable of supporting life.

With such spectacular odds, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, a large, expensive collection of private and publicly funded projects launched in the 1960s, was sure to turn up something soon. Scientists listened with a vast radio telescopic network for signals that resembled coded intelligence and were not merely random. But as years passed, the silence from the rest of the universe was deafening. Congress defunded SETI in 1993, but the search continues with private funds. As of 2014, researchers have discovered precisely bubkis—0 followed by nothing.

What happened? As our knowledge of the universe increased, it became clear that there were far more factors necessary for life than Sagan supposed. His two parameters grew to 10 and then 20 and then 50, and so the number of potentially life-supporting planets decreased accordingly. The number dropped to a few thousand planets and kept on plummeting.

Even SETI proponents acknowledged the problem. Peter Schenkel wrote in a 2006 piece for Skeptical Inquirer magazine: “In light of new findings and insights, it seems appropriate to put excessive euphoria to rest . . . . We should quietly admit that the early estimates . . . may no longer be tenable.”

As factors continued to be discovered, the number of possible planets hit zero, and kept going. In other words, the odds turned against any planet in the universe supporting life, including this one. Probability said that even we shouldn’t be here.

Today there are more than 200 known parameters necessary for a planet to support life—every single one of which must be perfectly met, or the whole thing falls apart. Without a massive planet like Jupiter nearby, whose gravity will draw away asteroids, a thousand times as many would hit Earth’s surface. The odds against life in the universe are simply astonishing.

Yet here we are, not only existing, but talking about existing. What can account for it? Can every one of those many parameters have been perfect by accident? At what point is it fair to admit that science suggests that we cannot be the result of random forces? Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being?

There’s more. The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces—gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the “strong” and “weak” nuclear forces—were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction—by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000—then no stars could have ever formed at all. Feel free to gulp.

Multiply that single parameter by all the other necessary conditions, and the odds against the universe existing are so heart-stoppingly astronomical that the notion that it all “just happened” defies common sense. It would be like tossing a coin and having it come up heads 10 quintillion times in a row. Really?

Fred Hoyle, the astronomer who coined the term “big bang,” said that his atheism was “greatly shaken” at these developments. He later wrote that “a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology . . . . The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.”

Theoretical physicist Paul Davies has said that “the appearance of design is overwhelming” and Oxford professor Dr. John Lennox has said “the more we get to know about our universe, the more the hypothesis that there is a Creator . . . gains in credibility as the best explanation of why we are here.”

The greatest miracle of all time, without any close seconds, is the universe. It is the miracle of all miracles, one that ineluctably points with the combined brightness of every star to something—or Someone—beyond itself.


Thanks for reading. Please comment in a way that can at least present your thought in a serious, cohesive manner .... not like morrey's 1 or 2 word aphonic inanities, or TK's constant baiting with zero substance or debate.
 
It's an interesting debate. I was raised with southern style religion jammed down throat. But...I did something ... well ... sacrilegious...I asked the question "where is the proof"! Proof that the Bible is nothing more than a,collection of stories and fables handed down from various cultures and sects. Proof that Noah was able to get all those animals on the Arc. Proof that God is the creator. Proof that God is real. And the answer always turned out to be "because it's in the bible"? How do you know that it speaks facts and truths...they would answer "because it's the word of god". I would comment and say "but it was written by men"..."how do I know the things they write are true and actually what God said?"...and they would answer "because the bible said so"!

So as,I matured and gained experience and knowledge in my science dicipline and found I had a less and less of need for god. Today...I am an atheist. I don't know if there is a god because I have seen no measurable and verifiable evidence of one. And I can't prove a negative so the theist must prove his existence. When they do I will admit my error and pray.
 
I don't honestly see any evidence for a creator. I sometimes wish I could believe but just cant
 
Galaxies all the way down to a single atom. Who can explain there origin? No one today, not even science. There has to be a creator, maybe not our god, but some superior entity. Until science can prove otherwise, theirs no other explaination as far as I can see.

Even with science the true maybe so far out for our brains to process we may never know before human race becomes extinct.. Just thinking about quantum physics, other dimensions, worm holes, etc.. it just gets way to crazy to comprehend. You all ever seen interstellar? Long ass movie but the end of it is a true mind fuck.
 
Common...millions of organisms that live in perfectly harmony. Take one out from any ecosystem on earth, and the whole system crashes. Look at how absolutely complex we are, how complex our brain is. Look at a tree, a fish, a fly or bee doing their job. There is absolutely a master mind behind all that. A bang? Or to think we come from bacteria? That's just crazy, I can't understand how people could buy into it.

If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? There is a God guys, and he made the planet, space, etc. Call him what you will, but he is there.......
 
Even tho hanzo doesn't want my opinion lol here it is anyway. Skunkx I think the ecosystem is thrown off all the time and life still goes on. Animals become extinct, fags marry fags, freaks of nature transgender, sex changes... If there was a god this people would be struck down for being what they are. I would love to believe there is a god looking out for us but it's just hard imagine.
 
Someone once told me, wouldn't it be better to believe in a God and there isn't one then not to believe in a God and there is one?

Moral of that is better to believe than not to believe even if just as a safety measure.

I believe in God but I'm not perfect. I sin occasionally. Anyways I respect everyone for their own beliefs and opinions and I think none the less of anyone who doesn't believe in God. Everyone is an individualist and deserves their own thoughts and beliefs.
 
i only disagree with organized religions, all too man made just used to control others and oppress women, i give spiritual people a pass since i can accept PANTHEISM or native American beliefs as they don't have a personal god hearing your whispers or carrying about what you do naked

I tried very hard as a adult to be religious gave it maybe 15 years of serious dedication. I was a Deacon in the presbyterian church and well versed in many scriptures from all religions searching to see if anyone was true, sadly none hold up to common modern rational , now im a very devout agnostic
 
People really over complicate the hell out of things. There of course is lots of proof out there however, if you discredit the Bible and all the other teachings things get harder to prove. The very fact that someone stomps their foot and says prove to me that the universe was created by God shows a lot of ignorance. Science can't show one way or the other how the universe was created. There are lots of "theory's" out there but no proof. I think it says a lot that since man has been around, one of their main goals has been to get in touch with their creator, who ever it may be. No other animal on the planet has a desire to find a deeper sense of themselves through a god. There is little doubt in my mind that the "GOD CONSCIOUS" is something we are born with because we are part of it. We search for it because it is a huge part of who we are. Why the fuck else would we do it?

Thats just my opinion and I respect everyone else. Even Morrey and TK 😉
 
Daredevil said:
Someone once told me, wouldn't it be better to believe in a God and there isn't one then not to believe in a God and there is one?

Moral of that is better to believe than not to believe even if just as a safety measure.

I believe in God but I'm not perfect. I sin occasionally. Anyways I respect everyone for their own beliefs and opinions and I think none the less of anyone who doesn't believe in God. Everyone is an individualist and deserves their own thoughts and beliefs.
Daredevil
Thats called Pasquale's wager. You beleive in your heart there is no god. But you play the safe bet...you live, your life as if there is a god. So when you die...if there is nothing...you lose nothing. But if there is,a god then u do all the right things and your in. Except your whole life you were,living a lie. Moral? A sin?
 
LittleTom said:
People really over complicate the hell out of things. There of course is lots of proof out there however, if you discredit the Bible and all the other teachings things get harder to prove. The very fact that someone stomps their foot and says prove to me that the universe was created by God shows a lot of ignorance. Science can't show one way or the other how the universe was created. There are lots of "theory's" out there but no proof. I think it says a lot that since man has been around, one of their main goals has been to get in touch with their creator, who ever it may be. No other animal on the planet has a desire to find a deeper sense of themselves through a god. There is little doubt in my mind that the "GOD CONSCIOUS" is something we are born with because we are part of it. We search for it because it is a huge part of who we are. Why the fuck else would we do it?

Thats just my opinion and I respect everyone else. Even Morrey and TK 😉
LittleTom
The big bang happened. From a singularity of universe burst forth. Now for years you heard that God created the big bang...why? Well theist hung their collective hats on the fact that when the big bang occurred, all the quantmn particle involved had no mass (electrons, quarks, etc). So if these particles had no mass then they couldn't have created the matter of hydrogen, helium which powers all the stars. But we know the Boson has mass. Ahh...the Boson...the god particle. God had to give this particle mass to create everything. Well one physicist said "no". If these particle passed through a field of electro magnetic energy then based on its size and speed it could gain mass and hence no need for a god to make it happen. Ok...back in 2013 they found the field...the Higgs field. And guess what...as predicted it gave the boson a b positive mass. No need for a god.
 
LittleTom said:
People really over complicate the hell out of things. There of course is lots of proof out there however, if you discredit the Bible and all the other teachings things get harder to prove. The very fact that someone stomps their foot and says prove to me that the universe was created by God shows a lot of ignorance. Science can't show one way or the other how the universe was created. There are lots of "theory's" out there but no proof. I think it says a lot that since man has been around, one of their main goals has been to get in touch with their creator, who ever it may be. No other animal on the planet has a desire to find a deeper sense of themselves through a god. There is little doubt in my mind that the "GOD CONSCIOUS" is something we are born with because we are part of it. We search for it because it is a huge part of who we are. Why the fuck else would we do it?

Thats just my opinion and I respect everyone else. Even Morrey and TK 😉
LittleTom
Remember...I can not prove a negative. You must show me positive proof that there is a god. That's your burden.

One thing to me that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is that we realize our own mortality. When we gained the knowledge that we are going to die your mind had to cope. Coping meant to take the fear from it. Well how could the mind do that. Let's create a place where we can go after death that is pleasant and makes it easier and less fearful to die...ahhh...heaven!

The belief in an afterlife is a coping tool.
 
Skunx said:
Common...millions of organisms that live in perfectly harmony. Take one out from any ecosystem on earth, and the whole system crashes. Look at how absolutely complex we are, how complex our brain is. Look at a tree, a fish, a fly or bee doing their job. There is absolutely a master mind behind all that. A bang? Or to think we come from bacteria? That's just crazy, I can't understand how people could buy into it.

If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? There is a God guys, and he made the planet, space, etc. Call him what you will, but he is there.......
Skunx
We actually didn't evolve from monkeys, we and our ape cousins all have a common ancestor. Chimps have evolved...Gorillas have evolved....orangutans have evolved but along a diffrent path. Our evolutionary jump was mainly in the human brain capacity. The apes of today look much diffrent than those 5 million years ago.
 
morrey said:
the burden of proof is on the creationist
morrey
Why? Because you said the Universe started from a cosmic fart? Statistically (as noted) the "Big Bang " is IMPOSSIBLE. Read the entire article morrey, not just the parts you want to believe. Your god is science, but you're wrong, for God created science.
 
tunaman7 said:
It's an interesting debate. I was raised with southern style religion jammed down throat. But...I did something ... well ... sacrilegious...I asked the question "where is the proof"! Proof that the Bible is nothing more than a,collection of stories and fables handed down from various cultures and sects. Proof that Noah was able to get all those animals on the Arc. Proof that God is the creator. Proof that God is real. And the answer always turned out to be "because it's in the bible"? How do you know that it speaks facts and truths...they would answer "because it's the word of god". I would comment and say "but it was written by men"..."how do I know the things they write are true and actually what God said?"...and they would answer "because the bible said so"!

So as,I matured and gained experience and knowledge in my science dicipline and found I had a less and less of need for god. Today...I am an atheist. I don't know if there is a god because I have seen no measurable and verifiable evidence of one. And I can't prove a negative so the theist must prove his existence. When they do I will admit my error and pray.
tunaman7
You haven't matured, you still fall for the argument of old, that what mankind says/does reflects on God Himself.
 
tkasch30 said:
Even tho hanzo doesn't want my opinion lol here it is anyway. Skunkx I think the ecosystem is thrown off all the time and life still goes on. Animals become extinct, fags marry fags, freaks of nature transgender, sex changes... If there was a god this people would be struck down for being what they are. I would love to believe there is a god looking out for us but it's just hard imagine.
tkasch30
I don't mind your opinions TK, come on. God loves us so much He created us in His image and gave us free will to choose what we want to do (believe or not). Is that not the ultimate expression of love?
 
tunaman7 said:
The big bang happened. From a singularity of universe burst forth. Now for years you heard that God created the big bang...why? Well theist hung their collective hats on the fact that when the big bang occurred, all the quantmn particle involved had no mass (electrons, quarks, etc). So if these particles had no mass then they couldn't have created the matter of hydrogen, helium which powers all the stars. But we know the Boson has mass. Ahh...the Boson...the god particle. God had to give this particle mass to create everything. Well one physicist said "no". If these particle passed through a field of electro magnetic energy then based on its size and speed it could gain mass and hence no need for a god to make it happen. Ok...back in 2013 they found the field...the Higgs field. And guess what...as predicted it gave the boson a b positive mass. No need for a god.
tunaman7
Never, ever proven, and you know that. If the Big Bang started evolution why aren't there mutated creatures which are evolving right now? Such as half man/half ape creatures. There are waaaaayyyyy too missing links in evolution.
 
tunaman7 said:
We actually didn't evolve from monkeys, we and our ape cousins all have a common ancestor. Chimps have evolved...Gorillas have evolved....orangutans have evolved but along a diffrent path. Our evolutionary jump was mainly in the human brain capacity. The apes of today look much diffrent than those 5 million years ago.
tunaman7
Your whole premise is nonsense. Stand back and objectively reread what you just posted! Incredible!

Our "human brain capacity" just decided to make an evolutionary jump?
 
Hanzo said:
Your whole premise is nonsense. Stand back and objectively reread what you just posted! Incredible!

Our "human brain capacity" just decided to make an evolutionary jump?
Hanzo
yup think its called Punctuated equilibrium or Punctuated evolution
 

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